On 2021-03-09 19:06:58 UTC stevea wrote:
> On 2021-03-09 18:33:14 UTC broadway_lamb wrote:
>
> > I can see that you are the one who created the [GDMBR route relation](
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6073693).
> >
>
> Thank you for reaching out to me, that is very polite in OSM!
>
> The route known as GDMBR has a long and storied history in OSM. As you can see by its cycle:network tag (US:ACA), it is a route by ACA, the Adventure Cycle Association, a bicycle advocacy organization in the USA which promotes long-distance bicycle touring. ACA has developed a national-scope bicycle network of about two dozen named (not numbered) routes. These route data are private (proprietary / copyrighted by ACA), so their entry into OSM violates our ODbL. However, some cyclists captured GPS data while riding, so for a very few of their routes (3 or so) pieces of these routes (or in the case of GDMBR, the whole of it) are in OSM, and so far it's "OK" for us to do this, although we shouldn't make a habit of it, lest we anger ACA.
>
> > I was wondering whether that route is somehow marked, and if it's not, what is the policy regarding mapping non-marked mountain bike routes? I can't find any info on the wiki.
> >
>
> None of ACA's routes are marked with signs, because they are private (see our
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Bicycle_Networks wiki), as ACA charges money for the maps with the route and entering such private routes into OSM violates our ODbL (license). But because the very few which have been entered (without signs) came from people who actually rode the whole route, captured these data in their GPS device as a GPX file, those data belong to them (the bicycle rider who rode and is an OSM Contributor) AND the route data belong to ACA as well. You could say that this is a sort of "truce" between ACA and OSM: they agree not to say OSM is violating their copyright and we agree that OSM will minimize doing this, and we have. (We've kept this to "about 3" ACA routes entered into OSM).
>
> Any "non-marked" routes that you find in Russia (or anywhere besides the USA) might use the wiki (which is USA-specific) for anywhere in the world as a guide to make "national biking policy for how to enter routes in OSM" for that country. If the route is marked, it is easy: we can enter these, as they are "on the ground verifiable." If they are public (a government route, whether signed, not signed or "going to be signed in the future when we get funding to sign," OSM can enter these, too. When to NOT enter is two-fold: when the route is private, do not enter these and when the route is simply "somebody's suggested ride" (unsigned), do not enter these, either. Please read the wiki's notice on "what to map" and "what not to map." This is best said to be true around the world, not simply in the United States.
>
> > The thing is that I was going to map a similar mountain bike route in Russia, but the local community members told me that only those routes that are somehow marked should be mapped.
> >
>
> This is good advice. It is 100% true that you should not map a route which is a private route where the data are copyrighted by a publishing company (or bicycle advocacy organization, like ACA, which definitely wants to protect its copyright). It is also 100% true that you should not map a route which is simply "what some people feel like is a good bicycle ride," as these are ephemeral and transitory in nature — they are not official and they are not signed. There is good guidance in the wiki, and while it is specific to the USA, the advice about "what to map and not to map in OSM" is true for the whole world. It is perfectly OK to map bike routes which are signed as bike routes. These routes often fit into hierarchies of national, regional and local.
>